Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 12:59:08 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Islam, TD10/TL66
>Afghanistan Saturn = 3,50 Gemini
>sidereal Moon WTC attack = 3,19 Gemini
>Bush natal sidereal Asbolus = 3,55 Gemini
>Bush natal sidereal CY118 = 4,00 Gemini
There is something interesting here:
sidereal TD10 of Islam = 3,11 Virgo
sidereal TL66 of Islam = 3,08 Virgo
This conjunction marked the birth of Islam. It produces in me the image of a strong vortex in the sky, an “opening” to another dimension, or to death and destruction, or to the afterlife. When triggered, it may be related to the idea of going to Paradise or becoming a martyr through deeds of destruction, self-immolation and sacrifice.
The square in the above positions represents a conflict, as if the Saturn-Asbolus / Afghanistan-George Bush connection, expressed in the WTC attack of September 11 (the Moon acting as focus), “triggers” compulsively Islam’s “cyclone” or “spiralling tunnel” that brings death and desolation, connecting this world to the other, to the after life.
I made a search for the times when this conjunction had occurred before. These are the results (the positions are all in the sidereal zodiac):
First, the conjunctions that marked the birth of Islam:
3,35 Vir 27/10/ 620
3,33 Vir 13/ 1/ 621
3,25 Vir 8/ 9/ 621
3,19 Vir 11/ 3/ 622
3,14 Vir 27/ 7/ 622
The second set of conjunctions:
19,14 Sco 27/12/1049
19,04 Sco 4/ 5/1050
18,50 Sco 23/10/1050
The third set happened exactly over the Moon of Islam and *almost* exactly corresponds in time to the “Black Death” which decimated the population of Europe (1347-1351)
22,11 Leo 30/ 9/1350
22,06 Leo 1/ 2/1351
21,58 Leo 13/ 8/1351
21,48 Leo 10/ 4/1352
21,45 Leo 13/ 6/1352
The fourth conjunction is isolated (only one), and happens in our time:
23,57 Ari 4/ 4/2005
Juan
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 10:39:35 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10
Here is some of what I have written before of TD10. I will try later to comment individually on Sivia Plath, Saint Saens, Enrico Fermi, and Edmund Husserl. Comments and data on “The War of the Worlds” are found in my notes on TL66 and I reproduce them here:
<>
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Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:20:42 -0600
Subject: [centaurresearchproject] TD10
I’m not sure what it means, but it gives me images compatible wit the subject-matter of the “War of the Worlds” 1938 broadcast. Remember, that night when the broadcast started:
Sun = 6,57 Scorpio
TD10 = 6,55 Scorpio
… the American writer/poet Silvia Plath:
Sun = 4,10 Scorpio
TD10 = 4,43 Scorpio
… composer Camille Saint-Saens :
Sun = 15,16 Libra
TD10 = 15,41 Libra
Venus = 16,22 Libra
… death of Emiliano Zapata :
Sun = 19,22 Aries
lunar true Apogee = 20,54
Libra TD10 = 21,36 Libra
… nuclear age architect Enrico Fermi:
Moon = 27,01 Aries
TD10 = 26,08 Libra
… philosopher Edmund Husserl :
Sun = 18,07 Aries (noon UT)
TD10 = 18,53 Libra
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Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:54:46 -0600
[centaurresearchproject] 1999TD10 is now # 30716
This body is one of a kind, half scattered disk object, half centaur. It comes very close to Saturn at perihelion (12 AU, perihelion passage Oct-Nov 1999), and goes to “the beyond” (190 AU) at aphelion. Its probable size is about 80 Km. I like the name “Ixion ” (Robert von Heeren’s original proposal for TL66) for this one…
…in my opinion, is an accurate description of its orbit: it penetrates or “impregnates” the world of the centaurs from the primordial world, while its very perpendicular orbit (eccentricity 0.88) resembles a crucifIXION, also described in its being bound to a wheel… the “primordial cloud” is the scattered disk which is the origin of centaurs, as was suggested by Robert von Heeren.
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Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:00:53 -0600
[Centaurs] TD10, CY118, sdo’s
TD10 is very unique. It belongs to the scattered disk (period about 1000 years), but at perihelion it penetrates “the world” and gets very close to Saturn, without “touching” it. I like to think of it as Ixion, the father of the centaurs, tied forever to a turning wheel. It already has a number (29981), so it is at this moment the only numbered centaur (or half-centaur) that has not received a name. It reached perihelion October 31, 1999.
I have very few examples of it. Silvia Plath had it in exact conjunction with the Sun…
So, if someone is familiar with her writings or poems, perhaps a clue about its meaning could be obtained. Collectively, it was in exact conjunction with the Sun, also in Scorpio, during the famous “War of the Worlds” broadcast in 1938…
An invasion by aliens is a very good description of its orbit: coming from outside it penetrates our world and clashes with it. This is not unlike what has invaded the US…
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Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 09:33:12 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Chechens, methodology, TD10
About 50 Chechenian rebels took the Moscow theater at 9:05 pm, Oct. 23 2002, and blah, blah…
[…]
I will assume that difference between Moscow (55n45/37e35) and Greenwich was 4 hours. A first look shows a close opposition between the Sun and TD10:
Sun = 5,20 Libra (sidereal)
TD10 = 4,50 Aries
A solar opposition gives a planet its greatest strength, it makes it “shine” in the sky. Now recall my answer to John Delaney about the possible meaning of TD10 crossing the US Ascendant: << Just a hunch that comes from the orbital symbolism: the US territory “penetrated” by terrorists, the paranoia, the fear. The so-called “War against terrorism”, i.e., more terror to combat the terror.>>
Which I think describes what happened… superficially.
The orbital gesture of TD10 is very intrusive. It orbitally belongs to the “scattered disk”, but what makes it unique is that it penetrates the sphere of the centaurs until it is “stopped” or controlled by Saturn. Like all the very long-range scattered disk objects (period =963 years, perihelion Oct/Nov 1999), it is an alien (or demonic or angelic) force that “brings a message” from the other side, but contrary to the other sdo’s that always “go away” taking a part of our lives with them (like an Angel of Death), TD10 stays until it becomes “structural”, it becomes “cemented” (Saturn), it is “the enemy inside”.
This is why I said that “invasion by terrorists” is superficial, a symptom. What TD10 puts in evidence is the internal predisposition towards death, death and violent invasion ingrained, part of our constitution.
The Russian victims of terrorism were in the same situation that the American victims of Sep. 11th: they belong to a nation that practices violence and terror against other nations, even though they are not aware of that or do not want to confront that truth; but they suffer the consequences…
If we apply this to an individual person who has TD10 very strong natally, we can think of childhood experiences of violent invasion, such as a serious operation at a very early age, or abusive parents, or parents who abused each other so that the child “instituted” the terror in his emotional make-up, even though he is not aware or understands what is happening, he is “innocent” regarding what the parents did to him, to themselves, or to another child, or what society, or physicians at the hospital, did to them.
Juan
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Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 11:41:13 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Chechens, methodology, TD10
Orbit-crossing and intrusion of the type exemplified by TD10 is by definition violent or traumatic, this is what orbital symbolism is about. This is not to say that they are “only negative”. This to me is a totally different thing. The result or after-effect of the trauma can be very positive.
“The miracle of life” is the result of this. We all start our lives with one such very traumatic and violent event: birth. And consider the violent fight that each individual sperm cell must give in order to break the egg’s membrane and achieve fertilization…
Even the most angelic vision, if manifested in an intrusive way, is traumatic or violent, such as, for example, St. Paul’s vision of the resurrected Christ on the road to Damascus. The visitation of Mary by Gabriel was received by her with the “Magnificat”, but I wonder what this same experience would mean to a woman today…
Jung characterized these “visitations” as invasions from the collective unconscious. They are by nature disruptive and chaotic, they always challenge strongly the integrity of the individual “I” or self. They are anomalous, premature encounters with what I mentioned when dealing with Zanoni as “The Dweller of the Threshold”.
What I was writing regarding TD10 was not with only the USA or Russia in mind. I had a couple of concrete individual examples (such as Silvia Plath, mentioned in the past) and in recent months I have had some very strong, very intimate personal experiences with it (crossed my Sun/Venus in April and was exactly conjunct my Sun in my 2002 solar return, also mentioned in the past).
Without considering astrological data for the moment, the conquest and colonization of the Americas comes to mind. For some people, this was a disaster, a generalized catastrophe, but not everything was negative, and the resulting cross-fertilization of races and cultures produced a “new race”, specially in Latin America where the inter-breeding was more extended.
But from what I see in international politics today where terror is met with more terror, I must say that it is manifesting very negatively in the cases mentioned. I’ll wait and see what good comes of it. Even the onset of an evil like the AIDS epidemic had some very good after effects.
Juan
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Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2002 19:50:53 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Re: Chechens, methodology, TD10 – Roy
[…]
I attempted a development or explanation of what I have found, that you quoted and which consists of 2 parts. The first is the orbital symbolism:
<> (see previous post)
This question of the “enemy inside” has the alien nature of TD10 in mind. I have dealt with this same concept from another perspective since the beginning, in my first essay on Nessus (see my “Redemption of Nessus”) , and showed that it is not something necessarily negative. I certainly don’t see it that way. If someone is confused about this please read ” The Redemption of Nessus” in http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/essays/redemption.html
Everybody has to live with an enemy inside, the shadow, the guardian of the threshold, the double. I referred to it when examining Zanoni. My idea regarding Sun/TD10 aspects rests on the “alien” metaphor and the insights provided by the doctrine of the Guardian of the Threshold, or maybe better, “the double”. I have not developed the idea in any of my posts yet, because I feel it is not the time for me. Apparently people do not like to hear about the strength and control that an entity like the double can have in a person’s life, and this may be a reason why the teachings dealing with it were kept secret until recently.
As for the 2nd part of my development…
<> (see previous post)
Violent invasion and abusive parents in childhood is very common, often, it is denied or kept unconscious, so ingrained it is. Every normal life is made of many examples of abusive behavior. Very few are those who are willing to deal with their shadows and their darkness, their angel/demon duality (Sun/TD10). Those who dare will be examples of positive ways of dealing with alien intruders like TD10.
NOTE: With this I am not saying that TD10 can *only* be seen this way. It simply is the way I see it, and it is a way that is not “negative” or “bad” necessarily. “Good” or “bad” is what we make of it.
Juan
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 15:43:41 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Saint-Saens
Camille Saint-Saens was born October 9 1835 in Paris. His chart appeared in Sabian Symbols #816, done for 6:45 a.m., and Gauquelin Vol.4 #2260 gives “7 a.m.”:
Sun = 22,48 Virgo (sidereal)
TD10 = 23,12 Virgo
Venus = 23,55 Virgo
TD10 is half-way between the Sun and Venus. One must add Pluto in a separating opposition in 21,21 Pisces, but here it is weaker than and over-ridden dynamically by TD10.
He is a difficult or paradoxical example of TD10, at least of the TD10 that I perceive from the orbital symbolism. He was a successful, popular composer, received many honors in his life, was a very social “man of the world”, fond of friends, and parties, the polar opposite of a personality such as that of Silvia Plath (to be examined later). His music is always balanced, delightful and “easy”, inspired by life and with no traces of any inclination towards death, such as, for example, Mahler’s. It is full of an <>.
His friend Gounod wrote of him: “He is neither finicky, nor violent, nor emphatic. He has no system, he belongs to no party, to no clique; he does not pose as a reformer of anything; he writes as he feels and with what he knows” (Hervy, 42).”
For these reasons he is not a favorite of mine, although I enjoy enormously the “Danse Macabre” or the “Bacchanale” of Samson et Dalila, or the “Carnival of the Animals”, or his “Organ” (3rd) symphony, which has one of the most noble slow movements I’ve heard. But the joy comes from their formal beauty and their radiance, not the emotional impact. He never reaches the heights or the depths of emotion like other romantic composers. He was strongly criticized for superficiality, but maybe what one finds in his music is a strong rationality as a defense mechanism against extreme sensibility.
The paradox of TD10 can be seen in different ways:
1- my feelings about TD10 are all wrong
2- TD10 is here inactive
3- TD10 is here a defensive “wall” against Sun/Venus excesses
4- he is expressing the more positive side of TD10
My opinion is that he is incarnating “3”, and maybe “4”. What follows is my personal interpretation.
He developed a strongly rational personality as a defense mechanism against an excess of sensitivity, and this shows in his music. This may be the action of Pluto, the opposition of which represents the role of her mother in his life. His father died when he was not yet 1 year old and she never married again; he always lived with her even after his marriage when he was almost 40.
the following allows us a more intimate look into his “TD10-over-Sun/Venus” aspect:
<>http://www.lessontutor.com/bf_saintsaens.html
here are the exact dates:
<>http://www.saintsaens.com/ssbio/
I think this shows the influence of Pluto, which apparently is what determines the way in which he represses deeper feeling and pain, i.e., the outward manifestation of TD10. His style of composition is therefore:
<> http://www.emory.edu/MUSIC/ARNOLD/saintsaens_content.html
If one analyzes the implications of what is described above, I think one will grasp TD10 in action, particularly in the way he treated his wife, later dramatized in his inability to face the death of his 2 sons. Saint-Saens, in my personal opinion, was “alienated” from himself, from his Sun/Venus, and was willing to live only the superficial aspect of Sun/Venus in his personal life. The deeper, dramatic part, was absorbed by his mother, leaving critics very often with a feeling of hollowness after listening to his music, complaining for its lack of emotion.
<>http://www.eroica.com/eq-music.html
The challenge in the Saint-Saens case, I think, is to differentiate between the action of TD10 and that of Pluto. Difficult thing to do at this stage. This post took me much longer to write than I had imagined when I realized the presence of Pluto.
Juan
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Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 23:55:09 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Saint-Saens, 2
Some reflections on Saint-Saens, before passing to other cases.
One can perceive in his music what an author called <>. These are Sun/Venus characteristics. However, what is peculiar about this is that TD10 is apparently “missing”, i.e., Sun and Venus are completely mediated by TD10 in his chart, yet his music appears as “pure” Sun/Venus, including its often criticized lack of deeper emotional content. One author referred to it as <>. These in my opinion are clearly the characteristics of the Sun/Venus conjunction.
Another characteristic of his music and of his personality, was described by a friend as <>. The Sun is here “softened” by Venus, it is not “heroic”, it is not striving to be or to assert itself through emotional or dramatic outpourings. This is conspicuously negated, denied, absent. This, I think, is the first clue about the way TD10 is manifesting in his case.
Instead of letting his feelings and emotions flow freely to compensate or to “sublimate” the frustration or denials of his personal life, he is using his art rationally and deliberately to perpetuate his emotional self-control. One author puts it like this: <>
We will not find “the secret” of his Sun/Venus conjunction (i.e., TD10) in his music. It is concealed. The conjunctions seems to be “pure” with nothing hidden inside. This is the clue. I have suggested that TD10 has resulted here in a defensive “wall” that conceals Saint-Saens’ deeper feelings from himself, that it “alienates” him from his own depths: he ends up advocating atheism, he disdains his young wife 20 years younger than him and forces her to live with his mother, later blaming her for the death of their 2 sons, and one day simply walks away from her, never to see her again. This shows cruelty and manipulation, and there is a very strong pattern of neglect which finds expression or is projected on her.
We see TD10’s “alien” sdo characteristics in the death of his 2 sons in 1878. These deaths are not isolated, they come after 3 years of disdaining his wife. His life is controlled by his mother. He manages to get away from that control by never surrendering to his own feelings and necessities, never sharing them in equal terms with another adult. He remains a perpetual child (another characteristic of Sun/Venus), but expresses this side of his personality only by projecting it on his relationship with children and with animals. When his 2 sons are taken away from him in a fatal blow of destiny (TD10), he “gives up”. He has no love for his wife –nor for anyone except his mother– and walks away forever, travelling extensively.
We have then a pattern of neglect and alienation from his own depths. We have loneliness and misanthropy, and a rationalization mechanism that does not allow the flow of strong or overbearing emotions. When these depths flow, they are not poured into the music, but appear related to death and alienation: the death of his children (TD10 over Sun/Venus, TD10 brutally “kills” what gives him life), and 10 years later the death of his mother that sends him on a path of deep depression nearing suicide. But he is relentless in his negation, he is “sealed” (Sun/TD10), and doesn’t give up the demands of rationality and balance in his musical expression. His music is used to seal the cracks of his life, and as a consequence he could never be an innovator.
The “emotional emptiness” many contemporary critics found in his music is another clue of TD10’s alienation. This is the opposite, the contrary of a Sun/Venus conjunction that is being lived fully. TD10 will trigger mechanisms of “disconnection” between the head and the heart. In Saint-Saens these mechanisms are ingrained in him, and are the result of living under the domination of his mother: he has no father image, so he is totally invaded by his mother in childhood, as he is invaded by music. He uses a “uterine” expression: he says he lives in music like a fish in water. The paradox of TD10 here is that “mother music” never let him live or break the emotional shield he had to develop to defend against her.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 07:47:08 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Saint-Saens, 2 – Amy
[…]
… his compliance with pleasing is another manifestation of his Sun/Venus, which I characterized as being –apparently– “pure”, as if TD10 were not there, whatever TD10 is.
… I perceive or interpret a negation related to what TD10 represents. One author mentions:
<>
I can imagine the suffering that the “Rite of Spring” would have meant to a rabid conservative with an exact Sun/Venus conjunction…!
Lack of innovation power and compliance with the public tastes can be seen as Sun/Venus characteristics when Venus has overpowered the Sun, or when the Sun is weak. Is he like this because this is how French music is at his time, or is French music of his time like this because he and many others lack innovative power and want to be compliant with public tastes?
Orbital symbolism offers a clue here: TD10’s “long-wave”, “dark”, and “invasive/evasive” gesture is overshadowing both the Sun and Venus.
At this point, it is useful to compare him with a contemporary and close friend of his: Grabriel Faure, who also had a Sun/Venus conjunction. Faure was born May 12, 1845 at noon in Pamiers:
Venus = 27,58 Aries (sidereal)
Sun = 28,59 Aries
In Faure’s case, there is (apparently, would like feedback) no well-known centaur or sdo in conjunction or opposition that stands in-between the Sun and Venus. Here the conjunction is more “pure”, he doesn’t have to deny anything. Another French composer (of a previous generation) with the Sun conjunct Venus was Cesar Franck, born December 10, 1822, at 7 a.m. in Liege:
TL66 = 21,43 Sco (sidereal)
Venus = 22,11 Sco
Sun = 25,26 Sco
In Franck’s case, the conjunction happens in the 1st house, but Venus is overshadowed by TL66 (is this why he was a Wagnerian?), so it is a more complicated case, like Sain-Saens who has a strong separating Pluto opposition. This is why the example and comparison with Faure looks so interesting or promising, because it can be used to put away what is merely a national characteristic of French music at the time.
[…]
National and historical character (and differences) can be used to explain, for example, my personal approach to the centaurs, to astrology, to life, to music, etc. By necessity I will not produce the interpretation of Astrology or of the centaurs typical of an American or a German. Maybe those national characteristics are *not* inherent in the astrological configurations. There is a line of unresolved matters here pertaining to the field of astrology.
My tendency is to think that the national character and national history are inherent in the astrological configuration, they are not something different or apart, they will always appear in the interpretation. For example, you can find in my chart why I am so “Hispanic” and “Tropical” in my approach to Astrology. One could say that Faure is considered by some the “quintessence of Gallic refinement” not because he was French, but because he was a French who had such an unadulterated Sun/Venus conjunction.
[…]
Homosexuality was probably a much more difficult and painful way of living then than now. But what I was trying to explain is that, for example, in Tchaikovsky’s case the pain and the depth can be easily found in the music, and that this is what normally happens in all artists. Is Tchaikovsky’s music like this because he was not French but Russian?
This strikes me as Saint-Saens’ characteristic, that TD10 is not directly apparent in his music. This is not common. The challenge is to find it there, and the clue I have used is its *apparent* absence. The hypothesis for the moment is that there is something empty or missing both in his music and in his intimate life, and that this emotional emptiness is one of the manifestations of TD10.
It is not very realistic to imagine that an artist’s life is disconnected or inconsistent with his artistic production. For example, when gathering material for Tchaikovsky, I read some authors who pretended that Tchaikovsky’s mood during the time he wrote and premiered his 6th Symphony, 9 days after which he committed suicide, had no relation to the sentimental tone of the music, which I find absurd….
[…]
Juan
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 09:54:04 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Saint-Saens, 3
Sain-Saens loved children (and animals). According to one source, <>. We can imagine, then, what his own children meant to him, and must have meant their death separated by only 6 weeks. For a homosexual more than 1 century ago who never married again and never had any more children, his children’s death is a pivotal point of his biography.
Consider this: the exact mathematical midpoint of his life, from birth to death, was November 1878, only a few months after their death, i.e., they died at exactly the center of his life, their death divided his life in 2 virtually exact halves. We may assume, then, that their death is central to understand Saint-Saen’s life experience, even if he didn’t think that way. I don’t know how he related to this event later in life, or if he ever thought or talked about it. How did he relate to this pain?
1878 is also the year when a progressed total solar eclipse occurred (1878.0 calculated by Riyal).
All this is related to TD10 here. In his chart, TD10 is 0,10′ from the exact midpoint between the Sun and Venus, which are separated by 1,06′ from the exact conjunction. So TD10 is completely central in his life. We see that, at the exact center of his life, the most painful experience a person can have, the death of a child, appears. So, it is not unreasonable to assume that TD10 has to do with it, and we have seen that it is consistent with the orbital symbolism: the “take away”, and the traumatic and emotionally violent way of acting.
I gave earlier the dates when his children died: 28 May 1878 (2 year old Andre falls from a 4th floor window), and 7 July 1878 (7 months old Jean-Francois dies of disease).
28 May 1878:
Venus = 29,44 Pisces (at 12h GMT)
TD10 = 28,25 Virgo
TD10 marriage = 28,47 Virgo (closer)
secondary converse Moon = 28,03 Virgo
I don’t know at what time the accident occurred, but we can see that there is a “coincidence” here. Just the day before the opposition was exact.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 11:15:26 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Saint-Saens, 4 – The Requiem
The Requiem of Gabriel Faure is one of my favorite musical pieces, but I have never heard Saint-Saens’ (I would like to hear it now). The reason why I bring it here is because this Requiem, composed in only 8 days in April 1878, was 1st performed with Saint-Saens as conductor a few days before the accidental death of his 2-year old son:
<<1878 composed a Requiem, which was performed on May 22.>> http://www.emory.edu/MUSIC/ARNOLD/saintsaens_content.html
<> http://homepages.tesco.net/~sudbury.choral/concerts/spring02.htm
It is interesting and exceptional to see words such as “sorrow” and “deeply felt” regarding Saint-Saen’s music…
Now we have a more complete picture of the Venus/TD10 transit of 1878. The Requiem is 1st performed in Switzerland with the composer as conductor, on May 22, 1878. I use for reference 20h GMT, which in Switzerland would be around 7:30 p.m.:
natal Sun = 22,49 Virgo
natal TD10 = 23,12 Virgo
Requiem Venus = 23,37 Pisces
natal Venus = 23,56 Virgo
and less than 6 days later his 2-year old falls from the window and dies:
Venus = 29,44 Pisces (at 12h GMT)
TD10 = 28,25 Virgo
TD10 marriage = 28,47 Virgo (closer)
secondary converse Moon = 28,03 Virgo
Juan
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Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 09:02:42 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Saint-Saens, 5
I finish here my reflections on how TD10 *may* be manifesting in Sain-Saens’ case. They refer to this case only.
Strong solar aspects have a relationship to the father. Here there is no father. Saint-Saens’ father died of tuberculosis when he was 2 months old. His mother-image became “phallic” (all-powerful, emasculating). But my inclination is to think that this domination by the mother is related to the strong Pluto opposition. This opposition makes things complicated for the analysis of TD10, because like most centaurs and all transneptunians, TD10 is probably very “plutonic”.
Saint-Saens’ music and life shows very strongly the more superficial characteristics of the Sun/Venus conjunction. His Sun is debilitated, and his music has no emotional “density”. Amy’s comparison with Faure is very helpful here:
<>
… lacks purposefulness, lacks “soul” and introspective power, lacks depth and “rhythmic flow”. Amy had said earlier <>.
These are characteristics of a prominent but very weakened Sun, and in my opinion are incompatible with what one would expect from a Sun/Venus conjunction in opposition to Pluto. I don’t know how introspective he was in his personal life, but he wasn’t in his music, and I feel this is a special feature of Saint-Saen’s personality which is related to TD10.
My hypothesis is that TD10 is strongly “blocking” the Sun and Venus. TD10 is working very deeply and radically through a mechanism of “disconnection” and alienation. Technically, it is controlling Saint-Saens life and artistic expression (the partile conjunction), but what comes out is a void, an emptiness, a denial, a lack of “presence”.
As a consequence “the shadow” takes control of his life. This is seen, for example, in the following:
1- he always lived with his mother, and when she died when he was 53, he became suicidal.
2- his children’s death, violently cutting his life in 2, controls his life history
3- he blamed his young wife of 22 for these deaths, feels no compassion for her
4- his music lacks soul, has no innovative power, lacks introspection and depth
Nothing happens isolated in a person’s life. The death of his children are accompanied by many conscious or unconscious features of Saint-Saens’ life and personality that are compatible with this death, and are focused on what his children meant to him: life, love, purpose, and emotional fullness. Like the father that he never had, they were “taken away” from him by Death.
Saint-Saens develops a personality and “builds a destiny” that gyrates on his defense mechanism against the intrusions of TD10: death, mother, homosexuality (which, as I said, we can assume was more of an issue and much more painful than now). He tries to live by disconnecting himself from his own depths of feeling, and he manages to do it very well: he was very successful and popular as a musician, but the price he paid was emotional alienation, later dramatized by the death of his children.
I think I am ready now to go to other cases. I leave Saint-Saens in peace.
Juan
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ADDENDA
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Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 05:12:11 -0600
… As I perceive it, the TD10 characteristics are not being allowed to manifest, except indirectly through the emotional superficiality of his music, and in his personal life they remain unconscious and are projected and seen as coming from the outside: the hostility of his critics, his extreme conservatism, the death of his children and blaming his wife for this, his extensive travelling and living abroad (he died in Argel), the homosexual lifestyle (whatever that was, probably related to concealing it).
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:58:17 -0600
… How does a keyword help explain the piece of evidence presented, i.e., transit of Venus in opposition to the natal, marriage, and transiting TD10, which marked the performance of the Requiem and the death of his 2 year old child in the lapse of 1 week (followed by the other child), and which divided Saint-Saen’s life in 2 exact halves?
The Venus/TD10 opposition indicates to me that the potential of the conjunction is being released or objectified by the events at that point of his life. The moment and the right transit reinforce each other, one speaks about the other.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:58:17 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Saint-Saens tropical positions
[…]
… The intuition arises from the orbital symbolism, there is no need to try to make it fit.
My pre-conceived notions of TD10 originate in my limited experience with it (of which some examples were given), which does fit the paradigm of orbital domain (I also have had some very strong personal experiences associated with it, but I won’t talk about them here). The orbital gesture is still not clear to me, although I have intuitions, such as, for example, the role of TD10’s very low orbital inclination, or the “alien” clue to which I have referred already.
These are clues that guide the imagination when trying to interpret the evidence, but this is very different from “trying to fit” the evidence into “a scheme” of orbital symbolism. Orbital symbolism is not a fixed or preconceived “scheme”, it is something dynamic that moves, that suggests and evokes, that provoques images and gestures or “postures” in the mind. I am not schematic when dealing with orbital symbolism. It is something alive and intuitive.
[…]
Juan
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 07:35:07 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Maria Goretti
I found Maria Goretti using Robert von Heeren’s “VIP”search facility. She is a saint and martyr of the Church, murdered at the age of 12 by her neighbor Alessandro Serenelli, 18 years old, when she refused to submit sexually to him. She fought back to avoid being raped and was stabbed 14 times, dying the next day at the hospital.
She was born October 16, 1890, in Corinaldo, at 13h 15m according the “VIP” database (no sources):
TO66 = 22,28 Libra
Sun = 23,06 Libra (12h25m GMT)
TD10 = 24,04 Libra
… not a “pure” TD10 case (orb=0,58′), but the conjunction is strong enough and applying. Also:
Venus = 7,17 Sagittarius
SG35 (Okyrhoe) = 7,45 Sagittarius
Pluto = 7,38 Gemini
Neptune = 6,38 Gemini
The attack happened near Ferriere, July 5, 1902 at “15.30” [ http://www.mariagoretti.org/MariaBio.html ]
Sun = 12,26 Cancer (precession 0,10′)
Moon = 13,20 Cancer
TL66 = 12,37 Capricorn
She was beatified by the Roman Catholic Church on April 27, 1947, and declared Saint in St. Peter’s Square by Pope Pius XII, on June 24, 1950, <> [ ref. above ]
Juan
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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 09:22:52 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Miguel Angel Asturias
Miguel Angel Asturias won the Nobel Prize for literature in 1967 and the Lenin Peace Prize in 1966. He was born at noon (no source, sorry) of 19 October 1899 in Guatemala City, and seems to represents a more “pure” TD10 incarnation:
Sun = 26,08 Libra
TD10 = 25,54 Libra (orb=0,14′)
The Britannica describes him like this:
<>
This “epic impulse” means that the Sun here is greatly strengthened by its fight with TD10 which tries to overshadow him. The Sun becomes “heroic”. He is considered the father of Latin American “Magic Realism”.
I read “Hombres de Maiz” (Men of Maize, 1949), considered his masterpiece, many years ago (in 1975), and it was one of the most fascinating reading experiences of my life. Using a language that seems to imitate the rainforest landscape, the author takes you inside the “nagual” chamanism where men and animals (and plants, and rocks) become one another, and the magical past is experienced in a mythical present, like in a dream. At the end of the book, you have understood what this magical/mythical and “sacred” experience of the Mayas is about, and you are far away from the conventional rationality of today’s world. I didn’t want to wake up… I wanted to keep dreaming, not unlike the experience of reading Gabriel Garcia Marquez “One Hundred Yedars of Solitude” (another Nobel Prize Winner), which also takes you into the mythical world of the tropical rainforest.
One author describes his literary language as <> [see reference below]
I always felt, to this day, that it is the work of a genius. See for example the following description:
<>
http://www.nobel.se/literature/laureates/1967/press.html
let’s imagine that the phrase <> refers to the Sun fighting to retain its strength and integrity against the overwhelming forces of TD10. Then TD10 would be:
1-) <>
2-) <>
3-) <>
4-) <>
Asturias was a vehemently anti-tyranny, anti-dictatorships, and anti-American protest writer, and this is probably the reason of his present neglect. Continuing with “Men of Maize”:
<>
<<… The next six years very nearly ended his life. He shipped to sea, lived a derelict’s existence on the waterfronts of Buenos Aires, Liverpool, and New York City, submerged himself in alcohol, and attempted suicide. Recovering briefly at the age of 24, he held a job for a few months as a reporter and contributor to the poetry column of the New London Telegraph but soon came down with tuberculosis. Confined to the Gaylord Farm Sanitarium in Wallingford, Conn., for six months (1912-13), he confronted himself soberly and nakedly for the first time and seized the chance for what he later called his “rebirth.”>>
————–
Note: TD10 first completely overshadows his Sun, “drowns” it. But the Sun, being the Sun, reacts, and his life, from then on, will be the continual fight with “the tragedy” of TD10, expressed in his literary masterworks. He “answers” the dilemas and paradoxes of the conjunction, the harmonious blending of the TD10 and Sun being his artistic creation, which can be seen as the spiritual completion of what could never be completed in his personal life. This is the dynamics of his Sun/TD10 conjunction.
————–
<<O’Neill’s first efforts were awkward melodramas, but they were about people and subjects–prostitutes, derelicts, lonely sailors, God’s injustice to man–that had, up to that time, been in the province of serious novels and were not considered fit subjects for presentation on the American stage.>>
————–
Note: He was a definite innovator, showing the creative strength of his Sun “stirred” by TD10. We can see TD10 in his subject matter (i.e., the subject-matter of his Sun): prostitutes, derelicts, lonely sailors, God’s injustice…
Up to a point, the mark of his approaching Moon/Pholus conjunction is in this type of characters, but the preoccupation with religious matters and with the ultimate meaning of life belong to the Sun/TD10.
<<… O’Neill famously maintained that contrary to most modern plays whose interest lay with the relations between people, his interests were, “in the relations between man and God.”… Plays generally do happen between the characters, of course, and so do O’Neill’s, but his statement gives us a hint towards a first principle in his artistic agenda, so to speak. In an letter … he wrote something which may clarify what he meant: “… the roots of the sickness of today as I feel it the death of the old God and the failure of Science and Materialism to give any satisfying new One for the surviving primitive religious instinct to find a meaning for life in, and to comfort its fears with. It seems to me anyone trying to do big work nowadays must have this big subject behind all the little subjects of his plays or novels, or he is simply scribbling around the surface of things and has no more real status than a parlor entertainer.” [http://www.eoneill.com/essays/brask.htm] This quotes reflects essentially solar preoccupations, and are therefore indications of the action of TD10. ————– <>
————–
Note: Dynamically, this is the “tension” between the Sun and TD10.
————–
<<O’Neill’s tragic view of life was perpetuated in his relationships with the three women he married–two of whom he divorced–and with his three children. His elder son, Eugene O’Neill, Jr. (by his first wife, Kathleen Jenkins), committed suicide at 40, while his younger son, Shane (by his second wife, Agnes Boulton), drifted into a life of emotional instability. His daughter, Oona (also by Agnes Boulton), was cut out of his life when, at 18, she infuriated him by marrying Charlie Chaplin, who was O’Neill’s age.>>
————–
Note: His children are the concrete symbol of his Sun in physical terms. They are “marked” by TD10.
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:46:33 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] TD10: Eugene O’Neill
I mean the relationship his children have with him, which is the result of what he was as a father. The Sun is a symbol of fatherly virility and integrity, or to put it better, the father, or you as a father, or the experience with the father or with fatherhood, is intimately related to the natal Sun in all charts, masculine or feminine. Your children are concrete physical symbols of who you are as a father, which in turn expresses who you are as a man (Sun in a masculine nativity). Of course I have in mind your personal experience of your Sun, not your children’s, but inevitably, you will transmit to them the astrological determinations of your natal Sun, you will always leave your mark on them.
————–
<<O’Neill’s final years were spent in grim frustration. Unable to work, he longed for his death and sat waiting for it in a Boston hotel, seeing no one except his doctor, a nurse, and his third wife, Carlotta Monterey. O’Neill died as broken and tragic a figure as any he had created for the stage.>>
————–
Note: In his physical/external life, he is tragically “marked” by TD10. But spiritually, the Sun soared and left an inheritance that made him immortal for having touched the deepest recesses of the human condition, redeeming what is essentially human (Sun) in his characters.
In the following quote one can see the essential centaurean paradigm and the “alienation” clue regarding TD10, here expressed in the tension between the Sun and TD10:
<>
http://www.eoneill.com/essays/chase.htm
Juan
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 07:14:10 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10 and the Black Moon
The symbolism of the True Black Moon, among many other things, has to do with succubi and incubi:
http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/blackmoon/lilith.html
In 1981, Hollywood produced 2 films dealing with the subject (none unfortunately has release dates in the IMDB). The first was “The Entity”, based on a true story and starring Barbara Hershey. The IMDB summarizes the plot:
<>
http://us.imdb.com/Plot?0082334
This movie, in my opinion, exaggerates, but the story is not that uncommon in real life. I know personally a few…
The second movie is to me much more realistic capturing the erotic and “inconfessable” darker dimensions and loneliness of this type of experience. It practically disappeared and is difficult to find. This film is very dark, morbid, and ghostly, typical of the osculating Black Moon, and was criticized as being stupid and of the lowest quality. From what I remember of the only time a saw it many years ago, putting its artistic value aside, it was a good depiction of the psychological atmosphere that accompanies the succubi and incubi. My guess is that the strong erotism and the morally controversial, misunderstood, and terrifying subject-matter condemned it to failure.
It is more like an erotic-horror movie, and it received several silly titles:
Satan’s Mistress (1981)
… aka Dark Eyes (1981)
… aka Demon Rage (1981)
… aka Fury of the Succubus (1981)
Of course the use of the word “succubus” is a mistake. The evil spirit was really an incubus, i.e., male.
A summary of the plot from the IMDB:
<>
http://us.imdb.com/Plot?0083031
The actress in this case was Lana Wood, sister of Natalie Wood and well-known actress in James Bond movies. She was born according to the IMDB on March 1, 1946:
Sun = 10,18 Pisces (noon GMT)
TD10 = 10,46 Scorpio
while Barbara Hershey was born 5 Feb 1948: TD10 = 11,49 Scorpio
The role of the True Black Moon is seen in the following fact: during 1981, it passed (conjunction) no less than 13 times over the TD10 position of both actresses, and passed at least 8 times over transiting TD10. This is a rare occurrence.
Additionally, in the case of Lana Wood, the relationship is much more significant because transiting TD10 stationed that year in 10,16 Sagittarius (precession-corrected), the exact square point of her natal Sun.
This transit of TD10 combined with the Black Moon apparently gave a fatal blow to Lana Wood’s career, because according to the IMDB, after this, she made only another apparition the next year (“Capitol”), and the list stops. Other than 2 documentaries on the James Bond series released in the year 2000, she apparently retired at that time. It was the end of her acting career.
Juan
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Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:37:01 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10 and the Black Moon, 2
I was in a hurry this morning and made some mistakes in my post. The significant facts regarding Lana Wood and the “Dark Eyes” 1981 movie are as follows:
1-) on the mundane level:
That year, transiting Black Moon and transiting TD10 formed a conjunction in 10-11 Sagittarius. The previous TD10/Black Moon conjunction had happened in 1972.
As is characteristic of the transiting Osculating Black Moon, there were at least 8 conjunctions that year, plus many others the year before. This corresponds to Hollywood releasing 2 movies on the same occult-sexual subject the same year.
2-) on the crossed mundane/personal level:
Lana Wood (b. March 1 1946) has the Sun in 10 Pisces, therefore, the Black Moon/TD10 transiting conjunctions are making exact squares to it. The mundane significance of the conjunction is affecting her directly and critically. She is the main protagonist of the film, and 1 year after the movie was released, at 36, her acting career stops.
3-) on the personal level:
Transiting Black Moon in 1981 also makes 13 conjunctions with Lana Wood’s natal TD10, plus the 8 conjunctions with transiting TD10 that exactly square her natal Sun. She also has the Sun and TD10 in a tight trine aspect at birth.
The “death” of her career may not be directly related to the failure (or actual ridicule) of the “Dark Eyes” film. Her sister Natalie, 2 years older than her, drowned that year on November 29th, under mysterious circumstances. Lana published her sister’s biography in 1985. It can also be related to the fact that Lana did become “erotically too old” to perform the Bond-girl roles with which she made her career…
Anyway, all 3 reasons are related to the Black Moon.
Juan
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Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 11:43:18 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: keywords
I have outlined before my method to derive keywords. The explanation can be read after the list of keywords in my site. Here is a preliminary exercise in applying that method to the material I have presented on TD10:
disconnection, alienation
lack, emptiness, carcass
nihilism, desolation,
surrender, death, neglect
pain, depth, profound
shadow, darkness, terror
loneliness, oppression,
cross, seal, stigma
invincible, indestructible
rock formations
the intelligibility of chaos
If you do not understand how these keywords were extracted from the TD10 material posted (including the Ben Gurion case, which I decline to comment, and my notes of the past collected in my site), please read the explanation at the end of my keywords page: http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/articles.html
Juan
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Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 21:33:45 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Aleksis Kivi
The Finnish composer Einojuhani Rautavaara, author of the opera “Aleksis Kivi” (1995-1996): http://news.mpr.org/features/199903/12_ormsethv_composer/index.shtml
<>
His date of birth is nationally celebrated in Finland: October 10th, 1834. At Noon GMT:
Sun = 16,42 Libra
TD10 = 15,32 Libra
UX25 = 16,32 Libra
2002UX25 –later named “Uni”– is a giant classic cubewano (range 36.6–>49.0 AU) of about 1000 Km in diameter. I will go on ignoring UX25, assuming that the characteristics of TD10 are clearly discernible in spite of the focality of UX25. TD10 is dynamically very different from UX25, and it belongs to a different “domain paradigm”.
from the “Finnish Music Information Centre”
<<Kivi’s fate as a writer was extremely tragic. He worked as an independent writer at the time when Swedish-language literature predominated in Finland. August Ahlqvist (1826-1889), the leading Finnish-language poet and aesthetician of the time, condemned Kivi’s life work as linguistically and morally worthless, the writer’s optimistic ideological world view began to unravel. Kivi ended up in a mental institution and died at the age of 38, incurably insane, at his brother’s home on New Year’s Eve in 1872.>>
from http://www.nurmijarvi.fi/aleksis/kivielgb.htm
<>
<<… it is worth mentioning Kivi’s beloved Albina Palmqvist, daughter of a Helsinki clothing manufacturer and Aurora Hemmilä, a Mäntsälä inn-keeper’s daughter. Marriage was impossible, however, since in the society of the civil servant class, Kivi lacked the most essential things of all, an official position and the income that went with it. In his works, Kivi also wrote about his yearning for a family of his own. Socially, Aleksis Kivi fell between two stools in a rather ill-fated way; he was no longer a vulgar peasant but neither did he belong to the gentry. The fount of strength in Kivi’s career as a writer was his incredible imagination, his knowledge of people and his literary talent and, at the same time, the love and sympathy towards ordinary people that appears over and over again in his works – incomparable humour as well as a sense of tragedy and comedy.>>
In the words of the composer Rautavaara:
<>
– the “fight for recognition” is the fight of the Sun against TD10…
– the “backwoods isolation and loneliness found deep in the forest and the mystical forest creatures born out of subconscious archetypes” may be a reference to UX25.
Rautavaara continues (ref. above):
<<Kivi’s personal tragedy was depression brought on by hostile lack of understanding for his work. It developed gradually into classic schizophrenia. This demonic mood receives its personification in the character of Professor Ahlqvist…>>
NOTE: “this demonic mood” (depression, schizophrenia) is TD10. August Ahlqvist, later to become a symbol of oppression of artistic freedom, personified TD10 for Kivi. He criticized young Kivi severely, achieving “an undying reputation by belittling Kivi’s works”. Of “Seven Brothers”, Kivi’s greatest work, he wrote: <> [ref.:http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/akivi.htm].
Now there is a monument for Kivi in Helsinki, and his birthday is celebrated nation-wide.
Rautavaara equates Kivi’s final mental breakdown and death to a dream in his Opera:
<<However, the dream sustained in the poems of the epilogue its illusion, its beauty and hope lives on and grows out of the ruins and devastation. It is eternal.>>
Aleksis Kivi died in the night of December 30th, 1872. He was 38.
Next: Jean Sibelius writes music for one of the most famous of Kivi’s poems “Sydämenu Laulu” or ¨Song of My Heart”, related to the death of children.
Juan
_______________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:49:31 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: Aleksis Kivi, 2. Sibelius
I learned about Aleksis Kivi when examining Sibelius composition of “Sydämenu Laulu” (The Song of My Heart) in 1898, after a famous poem of Kivi found in hi masterwork “Seven Brothers”.
<>
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/akivi.htm
This poem has a strong Chariklo overtone. This is confirmed below when we found that the death Chariklo of Kivi is exactly conjunct the death Moon of Sibelius (the data on Sibelius death is: September 20, 1957, 8:45 p.m. in Jarvenpää, ref.: p.127 of Santeri Levas “Sibelius, A Personal Portrait” Bucknell University Press, 1973)
Sibelius was always attracted to the subject of Death as it appears in Finnish myths and legends. Two of his most popular compositions gyrate about Death: “The Swan of Tuonela”, a passage from the Kalevala that speaks of the Land of the Dead, and the “Valse Triste”, a dance with Death from the play “Kuolema” (Death) written by his brother-in-law. Sibelius had TD10 in conjunction with the Lunar Node:
Kivi natal TD10 = 23,26 Virgo (sidereal)
Kivi natal Sun = 24,27 Virgo (12h GMT)
Sibelius natal Node = 26,25 Virgo
Kivi death Hylonome = 26,10 Virgo
Sibelius natal TD10 = 27,23 Virgo
He engaged in the composition of the song after Kivi’s poem in 1895; this was the time when his second daughter, Katarina, was born, in November of that year. The song was first performed December 1, 1898, just days after the birth of his third daughter, Kirsty.
Kirsty died of typhus 1 year later, on February 10, 1900.
Sibelius, progressed Moon at Kirsty’s death = 20,47 Libra
Sibelius, TD10 at death = 21,14 Libra
Sibelius, Moon at death = 20,37 Cancer
Kirsty, Asbolus at death = 20,02 Cancer
Kivi, Chariklo at death = 21,19 Cancer
Kivi, Pholus at death = 21,08 Capricorn
Kirsty, Mars at death = 22,07 Capricorn
NOTE: Sibelius had 6 daughters, of which only Kirsty died. But I found one source that mentions 1 more daughter dying near birth:
<> http://herkules.oulu.fi/isbn9514254295/isbn9514254295.pdf
Eveliina was also the name of his aunt. A seventh daughter is never mentioned in the biographies.
Between the composition “The Song of my heart” in 1898, and Kirsty’s death in February 1900, natal TD10 was activated in the following way in the chart of Sibelius:
progressed Moon conjunct natal TD10 = 14 February 1898
progressed Sun square natal TD10 = 24 September 1899
progressed Sun square progressed natal TD10 = 2 November 1899
solar arc TD10 square natal Sun = January 5, 1900.
Summarizing, TD10 appears in the following connections:
1- Kirsty dies, progressed Moon (20,47 Libra) conjunct his death TD10 (21,14 Libra)
2- Kirsty dies, progressed Moon (20,47 Libra) square death Moon (20,37 Cancer)
3- death Moon (20,37 Cancer) square death TD10 (21,14 Libra)
4- Kirsty dies, solar arc TD10 (22,57 Leo) square natal Sun (23,03 Scorpio)
5- Kirsty dies, transiting Sun (27 Capricorn) trines Sibelius natal TD10 (27 Virgo)
6- Kirsty dies, transiting Sun (27 Capricorn) conjunct Kivi’s death Venus (27 Capricorn)
7- Kivi dies, transiting Hylonome and Mars in 26 Virgo conjunct Sibelius Node and TD10
The period of activation of TD10 by the progressed Moon (conjunction) and by the square of the progressed converse and direct Sun goes from February 1898 to January 1900. The premiere of “The Song of My heart” was December 1st 1898, and Kirsty died February 10th 1900. This period saw also the birth of the First Symphony and of “Finlandia”. The composition of the 1st Symphony started in the winter of 1898; it was first performed on April 26, 1899.
Neither “Finlandia” nor the First Symphony are marked by “the hand” or “the voice” of death. They are romantic, epic and heroic compositions, very solar. I have always considered the finale of Sibelius 1st Symphony a representative of the astrological Sun. The Symphony is very plutonic, wild, neurotic, angry and dark, as if chaos and light were fighting each other with passion, as if one were fighting against a very oppressive force, but there is a heroic strength that extends its light in defiance triumphantly and infinitely at the end. This puts in evidence, perhaps, that Sibelius’ Sun was in no way controlled by the alienating, oppressive energies of TD10. To me, he was a solar composer “par excellence”, his music is an affirmation of the Sun.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 12:15:02 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: historical events in Costa Rica
On April 12th, 2000, I wrote 2 posts in another forum with the subject “events in Costa Rica”, where I tried to examine astrologically what had just happened then. Now, 2 and a half years later, the significance and historical transcendence of those events is more clear and confirmed by practically the whole of Costa Rican society.
I realize now, that the day that marked the beginning of those events, what triggered it all, was a TD10 incarnation (exact Sun/TD10 conjunction). I want to quote the relevant, very shortened part here:
[BEGIN QUOTE]
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:31:52 -0600
Subject: [crp] events in Costa Rica
On March 20, 2000, at 9:55 p.m., the Congress approved in 1st debate by a large majority a new “electrical combo” law that aimed at opening the electrification and telecommunications market to private entrepreneurs and which eventually meant the extermination of the state-owned Institute of Electricity, which has had the monopoly since 1949 and has been an essential element of Costa Rica’s development.
The Second Republic of 1948 was the consolidation of a “beneficent state” characterized by state-owned social services (banks/credit, electrification/telecommunications, insurance, health…) and labor legislation which were based on a socialist conception of the state. The profits belong to the state and are always re-used in development projects and credit that extended the services to the rural areas and to the poor, where the big employers and industries indirectly provide the resources. This model has been systematically replaced in the last 10 or 15 years by the “open-market” neo-liberal model of “wild capitalism”, which should result in better services and economical statistics but breaks the solidarity and widens the gap between the rich and the poor (please forgive me because I understand little of economy).
The dismantling of the socialist model and its replacement by wild capitalism has always been strongly controversial and opposed in Costa Rica, although it has been welcomed because the state had become so inefficient. And the Institute of Electrification had been increasingly weakened by the imposition of liberal laws, but something extraordinary happened this time: immediately after the approval of the electrical combo, strong popular protest and mass street demonstrations spread all over the country.
The mass-movement was very widespread and became violent when the police tried to break the street blockades. The country started to fall in a state of social unrest that was very dangerous, and above all, very, very uncommon. These things don’t happen in Costa Rica! This is the first time in my life that I have seen them! Let’s consider some of the transits when the “electrical combo” was approved at Congress (20 march 21:55 +6h, precessed to May 8 1948):
Sun = 0,50 Aries
TD10 = 1,43 Aries
the Sun is about to “crack”, it is entering a very “wild” zone…
The whole country became increasingly unstable during the following 2 weeks, traffic was semi-paralyzed, and massive transportation strikes were menacing complete paralyzation of the whole territory. Costa Rican state was “besieged” by the labor unions, the university and high school students, the state workers, and the opposition and active campaigns of many prominent intellectuals.
Something was becoming furious…
People were saying no! to the government, and the government (both the executive and the legislative branch) was forced to halt the “combo” project and change direction.
[END QUOTE]
What I want to do now is offer one or two ideas of the role of TD10 here.
1-) TD10 works both ways: it suggests the passing of a law that goes against the people’s will (Sun), and it also suggests the complete and massive resistance of the people who radically opposed the (obscure) will of the government.
2-) The signing of the agreement by the corrupt majority of Costa Rican ruling class, and the resulting mobilization of the population against the government, evidenced an alienated Sun, and also a society (or a Sun) that was fighting against its alienation.
NOTE: a definition of the word “alienate” is useful here: <>
3-) TD10 completely nullified the will of the alienated Government, of a dark or obscure Sun, and forced a “heroic” or epic mobilization of the population that was successful in establishing its will: the Sun was strengthened.
4-) The reaction against oppression was definitive and radical. Institutions like the Instititue of Electrification, the Social Security (universal and free medical services), the absence of an army (abolished in 1949), are the “rock formations” at the root of national identity.
5-) Unlike Pluto, TD10 is “humanized”, and in the case of Sun/TD10, the humanization is “you cannot take what is ours, this is not negotiable “. The president (the Sun) provoked a “TD10 reaction”, a return to or realization of our historical and spiritual roots.
6-) It was dramatically clear that in Costa Rica the ruling class, acting in pure self-interest (Sun), was willing to sell one of the most fundamental conquests that became part of the national identity. This is an enemy that is inside.
7-) In general, I think, in this case Sun/TD10 was more positive. Most Costa Ricans see what happened with the electrification “combo” laws as a moment of glory and pride (Sun) in our history.
This reflections of course are not definitive, they are only tentative.
Juan
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Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 06:59:48 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: 3 more examples
Giusseppe Garibaldi
b. July 4, 1807
6 a.m. (no source)
Nice -0h24m59s
Sun = 11,15 Cancer
TD10 = 11,57 Libra
Hidalgo = 11,31 Capricorn
-the square is definitely significant here: the Sun-hero fights against TD10.
CNN’s “The Valley of Death” – Operation Tailwind broadcast
June 7, 1998
22h EDT
http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/tailwind_af.html
Sun = 17,06 Gemini
TD10 = 16,16 Pisces
-on the alleged use of nerve gas in secret operation against American defectors in Laos in 1970.
Allan Kardec
b. October 3, 1804 (October 4 is given often)
Lyon
Sun = 10,03 Libra (Oct 3 noon GMT)
Sun = 11,03 Libra (Oct 4 noon GMT)
TD10 = 12,04 Libra
– the codifier of Spiritist Doctrine. On October 3, the distance is 2 degrees, but I feel it is significant.
Juan
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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 13:36:02 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] TD10: South Africa’s apartheid
My reference to the termination of South Africa’s “apartheid” sent me to check TD10 in that case. This is what I found:
http://members.tripod.com/tra_nations/a_sthafrica_const.htm
This site quotes from Campion’s book:
<<“After protracted negotiations a new multi-racial constitution was agreed and signed on the night of 17-18 November 1993. The new constitution came into effect at 00.00 hrs. 27 April 1994…. This was far more than a mere legal moment. The flag changing ceremonies were accompanied by celebrations and fireworks, and the headlines in South Africa greeted the birth of freedom”.>>
27 April 1994:
Sun = 6,26 Taurus
TD10 = 6,52 Aquarius
Ascendant = 9 Aquarius
Now let’s check the personified symbol of the process:
Nelson Mandela
b. July 18, 1918
8:45 a.m. – 2h (no source)
Sun = 24,50 Cancer
TD10 = 29,39 Libra
This is very wide and loose, but check out the transit of TD10 in 1993 during the months previous to the signing of the new multi-racial constitution (to account for precession, I will use sidereal positions here):
Madela’s natal Sun = 1,13 Cancer
transiting TD10:
31 Jan 1993 0Cp47
10 Feb 1993 1Cp29
29 Aug 1993 1Cp20
8 Sep 1993 1Cp04
18 Oct 1993 0Cp58
28 Oct 1993 1Cp13
7 Nov 1993 1Cp33
According to the quotes from Campion’s book above:
<<“Nelson Mandela was elected the first black president at 12.15 p.m. 9 May 1994, and was formally inaugurated at 11.19.59 BST on 10 May 1994, in Pretoria. This represents the final de facto, de jure and ceremonial creation of the new African ruled South African ruled South Africa …” Campion, “The Book of World Horoscopes,” p. 345-346.>>
Now check the transit of Uranus over the previous TD10 position:
27 Mar 1994 1Cp10
6 Apr 1994 1Cp25
26 May 1994 1Cp25
5 Jun 1994 1Cp11
Another very neat confirmation of the action of TD10 in this case is this: if we use the coordinates of Pretoria to obtain the Johndro geodesic Midheaven, we get:
South Africa geodesic M.C. = 6,40 Aries (sidereal)
Mandela’s natal TD10 = 6,03 Libra.
Juan
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 07:58:29 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Berlin Wall Down / 1999 TD10
Jonathan Dunn wrote:
>November 9, 1989.
>10.30 pm the border was opened there.
>That moment meant the end of the Berlin Wall.
>1999 TD10 5:12 Capricorn
>VTX 5:04 Capricorn
>Venus 4:31 Capricorn
To me, having the value of TD10 emphasized (Venus) doesn’t mean that TD10 means bringing the wall down. TD10 is the Wall itself. Venus enhances its symbolical value precisely that day, when “The Wall”, now brought down, became forever the eternal symbol of oppression, divisiveness, and alienation. The same can be said about the other dates, including the termination of Apartheid.
The cosmic significance of that day has to be seen (in my opinion, of course) in the aspects of the Sun. The integration, the triumph and the glory of that day and the ones that followed are expression of a glorified Sun. The aspects are significant:
Pluto=15Sc12
Lunar Apogee=15Sc53
OM67 =16Aq36
Hidalgo=16Aq51
Mercury=16Sc56
Sun =17Sc28
“Bringing down the wall” (like felling down a tree) is a very good symbol of a square aspect. The main significator here is the Hidalgo/OM67 conjunction, in exact square to the Mercury/Sun (and Pluto/Black Moon) conjunction. OM67 is a long-range sdo (period 959 years) , while Hidalgo very much matches the original “cry of freedom” (like in Garibaldi and many other political activists) historical reference to Father Hidalgo.
Nevertheless, I believe that you [Jon Dunn] have brought an important and valuable clue that complements what I have found. “consolidation and agglomeration”, like the “rock formations” that I intuitively saw, may represent the possible positive meaning of TD10.
Juan
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 10:33:36 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Berlin Wall Down / 1999 TD10
… the “status quo” of TD10 is one of complete unrest and disturbance (the oppression, the alienation). That is why I feel TD10 is not bringing down the wall but is the Wall itself. This idea appeared already in the case of Saint-Saens:
<< 3- TD10 is here a defensive “wall” against Sun/Venus excesses>>
TD10 has a unique “sdo-to-Saturn” dynamics, which I explained with the idea that unlike the other sdo’s, TD10 penetrates, it “comes here to stay”, like a colonizer. In this sense, the colonizer is a large-scale disturber, but also (to use your words) agglomerator and amalgamator…
The feeling I get from TD10 is different from other large eccentricity orbits in general. I have been imagining that this may be related to its relatively low inclination (5-6 degrees), to which I referred tentatively as “limited dynamic flexibility”.
This point about the inclination is a recent intuition I had when comparing TD10’s action with Pluto’s action. I don’t feel in TD10 the “cathalizer”, storming, “wild” and transformative effect of Pluto or of Pholus. The orbit of TD10 is unique and points in another direction… imaginatively: towards Saturn.
But in terms of TD10’s positive aspect, I feel one can find it in its opposite, and that’s why your words “amalgamation, agglomeration ” feel just right to me because they belong to the same “semantic cell” that the “rock formations”; they are a very important part of the puzzle.
Juan
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:11:01 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Berlin Wall Down / 1999 TD10
November 9, 1989 10.30 pm (Wall down )
Mercury=16Sc56
Sun=17Sc28
13-aug 1961 1am (Wall up)
1999 TD10=17Sc40
With precession from 1961 the Sun in 1989 would be in 17,04 Scorpio, but the Sun/TD10 conjunction is still exact. One consideration would be to think if the chart of the Wall’s ending, equivalent to a death chart, charts the Wall itself or its death (both strongly related to TD10 anyway).
Venus over TD10 the day of “death” can be seen as the “pacification” of TD10. It made me remember a similar case involving Venus/TL66 (found in my notes on TL66). This is the relevant part:
[BEGIN QUOTE]
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:46:46 -0600
It is well-know that the Thirty Years War ended with the 2 treaties of 1648 called “the peace of Westphalia”. The second treaty in Osnabrück October 24, 1648, effectively terminated the war over all of Europe. If we take 12h GMT as reference, we find:
Sun = 1,47 Sorpio
Mercury = 5,40 Sorpio
1996TL66 = 10,57 Sorpio
Venus = 11,56 Sorpio
Here Venus conjunct 1996TL66, close to Sun and Mercury “isolated” in just 10 degrees could be an apt symbol for this peace, which one could interpret as the peace that comes after the whirlwind has passed… or as the “redeeming” light of TL66.
During the whole period of the war (23 May 1648 to 24 Oct 1648), 1996TL66 moved from 6 Scorpio (the position of Mercury above) to 11 Scorpio (the position of Venus above). Pluto, although it is in 10 Taurus in 1618, moved on to 9 Gemini in 1648.
This seems to make TL66 more significant in terms of the War, unless one assumes that astrology measures only cause and effect and that the chart of its end cannot be used as radical of the war, only a radical of the peace… using this chart as a radical for the War is equivalent to using the death chart as a radical of the person instead of the birth chart.
[END QUOTE]
<>
That August 11th there was an anular eclipse of the Sun in 18,31 Leo (square TD10 in 17,39 Scorpio). This eclipse is therefore identified with the Wall. Checking the (Secondary and precessed) progressed lunations (e.g. with Riyal), one finds that the Wall was brought down after 28.2 years, when the precessed progressed Moon and Sun were in conjunction again:
pr. Sun = 17,12 Virgo
pr. Moon = 17,43 Virgo
This progressed secondary lunation misses the date the Wall fell by 0.6 months (about 2 weeks). The Wall completed its progressed lunation cycle precisely and was brought down 2 weeks later when tr. Sun was in exact conjunction with the radical TD10.
NOTE: my previous examination of the Berlin Wall is found in my “Notes on Chariklo”:
http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/notes/chariklo.html
Juan
NOTE: more TD10-specific material can be found in recent posts on Mahler , Sibelius, Sain-Saens, Vaughan Williams , Edmund Husserl, Admiral Nelson.
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Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:04:16 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] UN and Iraq: TD10
>Sun UN (1945) = 7,09 Libra
>TD10 Kingdom of Iraq = 6,56 Libra
also
TL66 1st UN food shipment arrives at Iraq (20/03/1997) = 7,55 Aries
TD10 “Coalition” invasion of Iraq (20/03/2003) = 6,30 Aries
I had this in my notes, as part of a comment that I never posted weeks ago. Today I would like to make some reflections on it, concentrating only on these 2 planets. The “UN (1945)” is the chart for the United Nations, Oct 24 1945, 4:50 p.m. EST. (this is the time when its charter was ratified, its “entry into force”). The “Kingdon of Iraq” is the very well-timed chart of the Iraqi nation (as used, for example, by Noel Tyl: Aug 23 1921, 6 a.m. Baghdad), in contrast to other charts in current use that represent a specific political regime only. The positions are sidereal.
1-) The United Nations incarnates, makes central the TD10 of the nation of Iraq. This Sun/TD10 focus controls the UN/Iraq relationship. One can say superficially that Iraq “represents TD10” to the United Nations; but since TD10 is in the Iraq chart and not in the UN chart, it also works the other way: the United Nations is, for Iraq, the incarnation of its TD10.
2-) What this means can be observed at the time of the transiting TD10 opposition. This opposition is the time when the potential of the conjunction is fully developed and mature, when it “blossoms” or becomes objectified in external circumstances. This maturity has been reached right now, with the present American and British invasion and military occupation of Iraq.
3-) What can be learned about TD10 from this? Obviusly, TD10 is not even close to being anything “nice”. I already have written in abundance on my view of what the U.N. has done in Iraq. I will summarize it very briefly here:
a-) violation and destruction of Iraq’s sovereignty.
b-) destruction of Iraq’s civil infrastructure
c-) large-scale, massive genocide of Iraqi civilians (through “sanctions”)
4-) One aspect of the Sun/TD10 relationship that became apparent in my examination of the conference of San Remo was:
http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/posts/mundane/sanremo.html
<<… represents the connection with a “sacred” foundational space, with the origins, with a line in time that extends in great depth into the past, into the cosmic reason to exist, on to God himself. <<Sun/TD10 has to do with the father… The sdo mark of Sun/TD10 is cosmic, hence the religious aspect, the relationship with God as father, and also the tragedy, the death, the oppression, the fight for having a right to exist, the having been born in terror. <<Sun/TD10 must fight against oppression and death… TD10 doesn’t want the Sun to exist, doesn’t want it to have individuality, it wants to suppress it. The result is an inner division that is fundamental, stemming from the roots, part of the justification to exist.>>
The religious aspect is evident in the fundamentalism and “omnipotent” authoritarianism that characterize the 3 paternalistic religions that converge in this area of the world, and which is seen rampant in the attitudes and feelings of politicians on all sides.
On can think, for example, on the U.N. “playing God”, or “playing daddy”. This has meant the destruction of Iraq as a nation, which began with the Gulf War of 1991. This is one aspect of Sun/TD10 that is also present in the Palestine/Israel relationship, made very evident today with the Isaeli decision regarding Arafat.
Remember how TD10 is related to the death of children. “Children” is logically the other side of the coin about “playing father”. Both in the case of the UN with Iraq and of Israel with Palestine, this “playing” has meant destruction and death “to the children” on both sides.
The role of TL66 in all this is also very clear. There is no need to repeat the aspects and positions here — I have mentioned the relevant aspects many times already– aspects with the foundation chart of Baghdad and with the chart of Islam.
The astrological relevance of the chart of Islam should be obvious. After the Soviet Union collapsed, and coincident with the discovery of centaurs and transneptunians, “Islamic terrorism” has become the scapegoat of politicians and the media worldwide.
It is interesting that Islam was born during an exact TL66/TD10 conjunction. I have mentioned this several times before (they will be in conjunction again in 2005). The “evil”, hypocritical and destructive side of the United Nations Security Council, which has become –in my opinion– dramatically evident in the cases of Iraq, Palestine, and Chechnya, is related to these 2 planets, and to the fact that this has come as a result of a confrontation with “Islamic terrorism”, a label which is used to hide “the evil inside” — the shadow, the “guardian at the threshold”, the fact that this “terrorism” has been their (our) own creation.
Juan
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Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:15:34 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] UN and Iraq: TD10
>- violation and destruction of sovereignty.
>- destruction of (infra)structure
>- large-scale, massive genocide
>- fundamentalism, omnipotent authoritarianism
>- “playing God”, or “playing daddy”.
>- destruction and death to the children
These are then characteristics of Sun/TD10. If we are able to distinguish the nature of the Sun here, we will have a good idea of the tendency described by TD10 alone. Another way of putting it is: this is what TD10 does to the Sun.
One intuition in this regard, arising from the orbital symbolism: the orbital gesture of TD10, including its very small inclination of 6 degrees (very small in transneptunian and centaurean terms), which suggests fixicity, but especially its control by Saturn and its very intrusive “cosmic” nature, resembles very much the Jehova or “Yahve” of the Old Testament. Considering the above descriptions and:
1-) His omnipotent, authoritarian paternalism
2-) His rigor and his sense of punishment
3-) His direct intervention in human history
4-) His antiquity, our spiritual and cultural roots
All this is reflected in modern political attitudes. All 3 religions (Islam, Judaism, Christianity), in many ways share the same characteristics in terms of their God.
This resemblance may very well give us clues about the positive meaning of TD10, such as, for example, in the Book of Job.
In this regard, TL66 is different, and as I suggested earlier carries the “salvation” and the “celestial” connotations –together with other sdo’s like CZ118 and CF119– “the Alfa and the Omega” of the Book of Revelation. I don’t feel TD10 has this quality. It is more Saturnian and “earthy”, in concordance with the original “JHVH” tradition of the Book of Genesis, the Adam that was born out of the dust… in contradistinction with the later “Elohim” tradition.
Like the Book of Genesis, TD10 carries us unto a deeply rooted spiritual patriarchal past. This included is the image of the “rock formations”, something about spiritual roots, or more accurately, of the Book of Genesis. I would like also to repeat the words suggested once by Jonathan Dunn for TD10:
“amalgamation”, “agglomeration”, “consolidation”
Which together with “rock formation” point to the positive side of TD10.
All the planets have an “evil” and a good side, and I have suggested in the past that the evil side is usually more easily observed or more obvious, especially on the mundane level, while individually the good side has more chances of surfacing. But TD10 gives a sense of “evil” that I don’t see in other centaurs or sdo’s, something which I related in past posts to “the guardian at the threshold”, to “the enemy inside”, to an Angel of Death… More precisely, it may be that Sun/TD10 is the portrait of Dorian Gray.
Have any of you seen the movie “The Keep” (1983), directed by Michael Mann with music of Tangerine Dream? or have you read the original novel of the same name by Paul Wilson?
Juan
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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:03:48 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] The Keep/Juan
I saw “The Keep” on cable many years ago, but it has never been showed again. From what I read in the Internet, from film critics and the author of the original book himself, the movie was a horrendous failure. However, I liked it. It is one of the strangest films I have seen.
Not long after I saw the movie, I found the LP by Tangerine Dream with the music of “The Keep”. It is called “Logos”, but that LP is from a concert where only a small portion of the soundtrack was played.
I may try later to discuss the movie and why I feel it contains all those TD10 motives. Here is a good review with some VHS vidcaps from the movie:
http://www.stomptokyo.com/otf/Keep/Keep.htm
The original book by F. Paul Wilson is consistently mentioned as one of the best horror stories ever written. Paul Wilson was born May 17, 1946
http://www.siue.edu/~kcole/f.paul/bio.html
Using 12h U.T:
Mercury = 10,27 Taurus
TD10 = 9,49 Scorpio
Anybody has thought of a possible name for TD10?
Juan
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Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 11:26:50 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] TD 10 & Riyal archives/Juan
[…]
I hope someday I am in the mood to explain why I think the movie (I haven’t read the book) is related to TD10. Essentially, the movie has:
— the ancient connotations, the battle of good vs evil
— the Jew / Nazi relationship
— the anti-fascist German soldier / Nazi relationship
— the Nazi / monster relationship
— the dying father / daughter relationship
— the ancient guardian-warrior / monster relationship
— the image of The Keep, the Fortress itself
One of the great moments of the film, that struck me the first time and struck me again yesterday, is when the Gestapo Commander, in desperation and terror, asks the creature: “What are you? Where do you come from?” And the creature answers: “I come… from you!”. And proceeds to pulverize him. This is the figure of The Double (Sun/TD10).
Juan
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Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 20:40:29 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] 1999TD10: Demi Moore
Robert von Heeren’s VIP database shows actress Demi Moore as a TD10 incarnation:
b.11.11.1962 (this date is also in the imdb).
Roswell, New Mexico
14h16m + 7h
Moon = 18,33 Taurus
Sun = 19,00 Scorpio
TD10 = 19,44 Scorpio
Venus = 20,33 Scorpio Rx.
This case is similar to Sain Saens: TD10 stands between a close Sun/Venus conjunction, it is “hidden” inside Sun/Venus. The difference is that Venus is in inferior conjunction (Rx) here, and the Moon is part of the configuration.
Nothing like “The E! True Hollywwood Story” for this:
from http://www.eonline.com/On/Holly/Shows/Moore/Facts/index.html
She is not an alien…despite being born in Roswell, New Mexico, the purported site of a 1947 UFO crash.
Her beauty is in the eye of the beholder–or the surgeon. Moore suffered chronic kidney trouble from birth, and she wore an eye patch to help correct a lazy eye. Later in life, she reportedly worked out like crazy and had multiple plastic surgeries to keep her butt tight and her breasts perky.
She’s a child of divorce. And divorce. Her family moved more than 30 times as stepfather Danny Guynes chased a series of get-rich-quick schemes. In June 1973, her drunken, bickering parents divorced, but then they remarried a few months later. They divorced again two years later, when Guynes abandoned the family. He later committed suicide.
She had a “Luke I am your father” moment. For much of her childhood, she thought that Danny Guynes was her father. Then she found some papers among her mother’s things that confirmed that her real father was an Air Force man named Charles Harmon. She met him when she was 13 but had no desire to have a relationship with him.
She takes direction well. When she showed up a little out of it on the set of St. Elmo’s Fire, director Joel Schumacher told her to get clean and sober–or get out. She went through a rehab program and went back to work.
She had a hard time picking out Mother’s Day cards. Her relationship with her mom broke down after her mother began selling tales of Demi’s wild past to the highest bidders. Things got worse in the spring of 1993 when her mother posed nude for High Society magazine. But mother and daughter reconciled in 1998, when Moore cared for her mother as she lay dying of brain cancer.
She knows how to attract attention. In the summer of 1991, a photo of her naked, very pregnant body on the cover of Vanity Fair caused such a stir that some vendors refused to carry the magazine. A few years later, she again appeared nude on the cover, this time with a man’s suit painted onto her body.
She’s a control freak. While promoting Indecent Proposal, she asked to be given veto power over any photos of her before they were published. The press rejected the idea and labeled her a prima donna.
Between 1993 and 1996, she made Indecent Proposal, Disclosure , The Scarlet Letter and Striptease, about sex for money, sexual harassment, adultery and naked dancin’, respectively.
Juan
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Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 07:44:42 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] 1999TD10: Demi Moore
b.11.11.1962. 14h16m + 7h
Moon = 18,33 Taurus
Sun = 19,00 Scorpio
TD10 = 19,44 Scorpio
Venus = 20,33 Scorpio Rx.
So, what has TD10 “done” to the Sun/Venus conjunction and the Moon here?
for keywords, see http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/keywords.html
Let’s consider her upbringing:
Moore suffered chronic kidney trouble from birth, and she wore an eye patch to help correct a lazy eye. Later in life, she reportedly worked out like crazy and had multiple plastic surgeries to keep her butt tight and her breasts perky.
Her family moved more than 30 times as stepfather Danny Guynes chased a series of get-rich-quick schemes. In June 1973, her drunken, bickering parents divorced, but then they remarried a few months later. They divorced again two years later, when Guynes abandoned the family. He later committed suicide.
For much of her childhood, she thought that Danny Guynes was her father. Then she found some papers among her mother’s things that confirmed that her real father was an Air Force man named Charles Harmon. She met him when she was 13 but had no desire to have a relationship with him.
There is a very strong issue with the father here (the Sun)…
How was all this reflected in her character? Is this a “pure” Sun/Venus conjunction opposing the Moon? Isn’t it evident here the strong alienating, dissociative force of TD10? Isn’t this a stigmatized, lonely and painful childhood?
She takes direction well. When she showed up a little out of it on the set of St. Elmo’s Fire, director Joel Schumacher told her to get clean and sober–or get out. She went through a rehab program and went back to work.
This “direction” shows the integrative desire of Sun/Venus, and also the sought-for father image or father guidance.
Her relationship with her mom broke down after her mother began selling tales of Demi’s wild past to the highest bidders. Things got worse in the spring of 1993 when her mother posed nude for High Society magazine. But mother and daughter reconciled in 1998, when Moore cared for her mother as she lay dying of brain cancer.
This shows a mother that was never a real mother, a dramatic illustration of TD10 acting over her Sun/Moon, father/mother figures. I wonder what or how all this shows in her character at present.
In the summer of 1991, a photo of her naked, very pregnant body on the cover of Vanity Fair caused such a stir that some vendors refused to carry the magazine. A few years later, she again appeared nude on the cover, this time with a man’s suit painted onto her body.
While promoting Indecent Proposal, she asked to be given veto power over any photos of her before they were published. The press rejected the idea and labeled her a prima donna.
Between 1993 and 1996, she made Indecent Proposal, Disclosure , The Scarlet Letter and Striptease, about sex for money, sexual harassment, adultery and naked dancin’, respectively.
I see a reaction to all the Sun/Venus and Moon “lacks”. We can imagine TD10 standing in between and negating them, and the way she strives to achieve their integration by going to extremes.
A lot of Sun/Venus glamour that is sought and desired, with the Moon as “the public eye”, but “forced” or “blocked” by TD10. TD10 is here like a sort of Melquizedek, who was born “old”. It is a childhood with grooves, a childhood that never was.
Juan
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Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:06:02 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Gaiman
Sun 19 Scorpio
1999 TD10 19 Scorpio
following is an extract from the links provided in the post by Jonathan Dunn, with some brief comments
http://ephemeral.info/sl/221.html — (CNN)
1- <<Morpheus, the King of Dreams, and his six siblings, collectively known as the Endless>>
2- <>
comment: “dreams”, “endless”, “nights”, are paradigmatic transneptunian associations, but particularly scattered disk object associations. sdo’s are full of disturbing “nightly” dynamism. In this they are like the “winged” (high eccentricity) centaurs. The word “night”, more human or normalized, is centaurean, while the expression “endless night” brings the dynamism (“endless”) of the scattered disk objects. The image of “the sandman” suggests time or eternity, endlessness, but particularly the idea of rhythm, the “waves of time”, the eternal return, the mythical motion from timelessness to the present era (from the scattered disk to Saturn). The saturnian quality of TD10 is seen in the image of “sand” (transeptunian) united with “man” (saturnian).
http://www.dyve.net/sandman/intro.html
3- <>
comment: These could be names for transneptunian bodies. Please check these words with some of my keywords for TD10:
…oppression, death, depth, terror, cross, stigma, indestructible…
http://www.expreso.co.cr/centaurs/keywords.html
7- <>
comment: This is the dynamics of TD10. “captured by an occult group” is the sdo “take away” (see my posts on Mary Shelley and Frankenstein), when the object leaves the human world. The “imprisonment” is similar to the idea of “The Wall” –signified by TD10, and also contains the following keywords from my list (ref. above):
… alienation, emptiness, nihilism, desolation, neglect…
8- <>
comment: This is a description by Stephen King. See how he uses the expression “take away to worlds that never existed”. Of course these worlds do exist inside the imagination, they are very real, though perhaps unfathomable.
9- <>
comment: Death and dreaming have always been brothers (or sisters?). When we dream, we are “far away”, in another world. Another paradigmatic transneptunian association.
NOTE: by “paradigmatic” I mean “exemplary illustration of orbital symbolism”.
11- <>
comment: These words are descriptions of TD10. The “ill-starred gods and frail humans” is the centaurean nature of TD10.
12- <>. <>
comment: the centaurean part of TD10: bringing death closer to us, making it more human (see my “Pluto is Changing its Skin”).
13- <>
comment: sdo’s…
14- <>
Today, I would put aside XS35 and ascribe what I said about the “visitation” to TD10. The concept of “visitation from another world” (dreams, aliens, gods, terrors, etc.) is expression of the orbital dynamics of objects like TD10. Orbitally, the centaurs are all “diminished” versions of TD10.
Juan
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SNOW FALLING ON CEDARS
The astrological role of Hylonome and 1999TD10
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:18:18 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] 1999TD10: Snow Falling on Cedars
David Guterson’s first novel, “Snow Falling on Cedars”, won the 1995 PEN/Faulkner Award and the American Booksellers Association Book of the Year Award, and in 1999 it was made into a beautiful, poetic movie premiered at the Toronto Film Festival, on 12 Sep 1999, directed by Scott Hicks starring Ethan Hawke. The film was nominated for an Oscar in 2000 and received numerous awards.
I haven’t read the book. The film, all very slow and dark, is one of the most poetic and moving I have seen.
David Guterson was born May 4, 1956:
Sun (at 12h UT) = 13,59 Taurus
TD10 = 15,22 Scorpio
There is an interesting reference to the (good) influence of his father in the Internet biographies of him, and this relationship with the father is reiterated in the story he wrote as well as in the movie. I believe we have here a very good example of TD10 working creatively, despite the alienation and the pain it describes. I will analyze this later with material from the movie and the interviews found in the Web. The Japanese American Internment during WWII, which is at the heart of the story, is probably also a theme strongly related to TD10.
Scott Hicks, the director, was born March 4, 1953:
Sun = 13,37 Pisces
TD10 = 14,23 Scorpio
Ethan Hawke was born Nov 6, 1970:
Sun = 13,40 Scorpio
Jupiter = 15,52 Scorpio
So Ethan practically incarnates the “TD10 vision” of both the writer of the book and the director of the film.
At the time of the premiere, 12 Sep 1999
TD10 = 26,24 Pisces
Ethan Hawke’s natal TD10 = 26,34 Scorpio
The Book was first published in hardcover in September 1994:
http://www.bookbrowse.com/index.cfm?page=title&titleID=340
transiting Jupiter 30 Sep 1994 = 14,54 Scorpio
Juan
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:42:37 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] 1999TD10: Snow Falling on Cedars, 2
a detailed summary of the plot is found here, where it is said that the book opens (and the movie) with the trial, on December 6, 1954:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/cedars/summary.html
When writing my past post, I had thought: “Oh! This is a Venus/Hylonome story…”
Now, looking at the positions of this day (6 Dec 1954, using 12h U.T. just for reference), I was stunned:
Venus = 14,40 Scorpio, stationary going direct
Hylonome = 14,36 Taurus
TD10 = 14,59 Scorpio
which is an extremely beautiful confirmation of the meaning of both Hylonome and TD10…!
Juan
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Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:08:09 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Snow Falling on Cedars, 3: Hylonome
I saw the movie again yesterday, so maybe I should attempt at least a brief astrological comment. On the movie, as well as on the original novel, there is a lot of material on the web, enough to make an in-depth analysis.
Astrologically, the most direct testimony is the one given by the Dec 6 1954 date, when the story begins, at the opening of the trial for murder against Hatsue’s husband. Venus stationary going direct in exact conjunction with TD10 is a perfect description of Ishmael (Ethan Hawke), whose character is central in the story. He has been embittered by the War, where he lost an arm, but also –or mainly– by Hatsue’s love rejection. He is still in love with Hatsue at the time of the trial, unable to let go the past, despite the fact that Hatsue married years ago just before the War had started.
They had grown up together and became something like “twin-souls” in their early teens, discovering love and sensuality in a hollow cedar tree where they liked to go and isolate themselves from the racial and cultural prejudices that menaced to keep them apart. But after Pearl Harbor, the racial hatred and cultural prejudices became stronger than their personal desire to be together. Hatsue adapted to the situation, since even before she had begun to let go their relationship due to the incompatibility with her (Japanese) family tradition, that allowed her no space or choice for such an inter-racial relationship.
Their relationship is Hylonomian, “made in heaven”, lived as a sort of primordial or utopian Garden of Eden, away from the pressures of the social reality surrounding them. As such it is intrinsically “sad”, the lovers are destined for separation. This is shown in the Venus/Hylonome opposition, showing the ambivalence of Ishmael, who is still longing for his Lost Paradise with Hatsue 13 years after she terminated their relationship. Due to the tabus of her culture, Hatsue, now married, cannot give Ishmael a last good-bye embrace, which he is asking for in order to let go his love for her.
Venus retrograde represents Ishmael’s yearning for what he lost, epitomized by his missing arm. A part of his manhood has been severed fighting the Japanese during the War, as a metaphor of a part of him that Hatsue took away by refusing to hold him in that last loving embrace he needs to go on with his life. As Venus turns stationary during the trial, he flashes back in time and relives their moments together and their separation. He is deeply embittered, with no life of his own, continuing the work of his father as a journalist in the community, but as a cynical observer only, without the commitment of his father –who has passed away– in favour of his Japanese neighbors and friends.
But Ishmael’s reporting curiosity leads him alone to a crucial piece of evidence that would free Hatsue’s husband from a certain conviction for murder. He conceals that evidence fighting inside of himself with his bitterness, and it is not until the trial has ended when he finally decides to show the evidence to the Police and to the Judge. After the jury had decided “guilty”, the Judge, seeing the evidence, revokes the sentence and sets Hatsue’s husband free. By giving up Hatsue in his heart after so many years of bitterness, he grants her for the first time the possibility of happiness and of having an independent life. Hatsue, finally, gives him a big embrace in gratitude. Ishmael, in deep pain but strong in his conviction, hugs her back tenderly as much as he can with his only arm, and walks away alone in the dense atmosphere of winter.
This “giving up the past” of Ishmael, finally deciding during the trial to face life once more after many years, is beautifully represented by Venus stationary turning direct the day the trial starts. He is Venus, totally identified with his object of love, without a life of his own, hurt and vulnerable, in need of Hatsue’s love. Hylonome in opposition is his yearning for the paradise he had lost, and also his final surrender and forgiveness.
In my next message, I will deal with the very focal meaning of TD10 in the story, or in the movie at least.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:47:04 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Snow Falling on Cedars, 4: TD10 – a
In the last post, I showed how Hylonome described the romantic relationship which is the axis of the story, and I also suggested that this story should help us understand the positive aspects of 1999TD10.
The correct way of saying this would be: “the positive or creative way of dealing with TD10”
In my description of their “hylonomian” relationship which I wrote on that occasion, I have now included “[TD10]” in brackets whenever I think its role is evident
“Astrologically, the most direct testimony is the one given by the Dec 6 1954 date, when the story begins, at the opening of the trial for murder [TD10] against Hatsue’s husband. Venus stationary going direct in exact conjunction with TD10 is a perfect description of Ishmael (Ethan Hawke), whose character is central in the story. He has been embittered by the War [TD10], where he lost an arm, but also –or mainly– by Hatsue’s love rejection [TD10]. He is still in love with Hatsue at the time of the trial, unable to let go the past, despite the fact that Hatsue married years ago just before the War had started.
“They had grown up together and became something like “twin-souls” in their early teens, discovering love and sensuality in a hollow cedar tree where they liked to go and isolate themselves from the racial and cultural prejudices that menaced to keep them apart [TD10]. But after Pearl Harbor, the racial hatred and cultural prejudices became stronger [TD10] than their personal desire to be together. Hatsue adapted to the situation, since even before she had begun to let go their relationship due to the incompatibility [TD10] with her (Japanese) family tradition, that allowed her no space or choice for such an inter-racial relationship [TD10].
“Their relationship is Hylonomian, “made in heaven”, lived as a sort of primordial or utopian Garden of Eden, away from the pressures of the social reality surrounding them. As such it is intrinsically “sad”, the lovers are destined for separation. This is shown in the Venus/Hylonome opposition, showing the ambivalence of Ishmael, who is still longing for his Lost Paradise with Hatsue 13 years after she terminated their relationship. Due to the tabus of her culture [TD10], Hatsue, now married, cannot give Ishmael a last good-bye embrace, which he is asking for in order to let go his love for her.
“Venus retrograde represents Ishmael’s yearning for what he lost, epitomized by his missing arm. A part of his manhood has been severed [TD10] fighting the Japanese during the War, as a metaphor of a part of him that Hatsue took away by refusing to hold him in that last loving embrace he needs to go on with his life. As Venus turns stationary during the trial, he flashes back in time and relives their moments together and their separation. He is deeply embittered, with no life of his own, continuing the work of his father [TD10] as a journalist in the community, but as a cynical observer only [TD10], without the commitment of his father –who has passed away– in favour of his Japanese neighbors and friends.
“But Ishmael’s reporting curiosity leads him alone to a crucial piece of evidence that would free Hatsue’s husband from a certain conviction for murder [TD10]. He conceals that evidence fighting inside of himself with his bitterness [TD10], and it is not until the trial has ended when he finally decides to show the evidence to the Police and to the Judge. After the jury had decided “guilty”, the Judge, seeing the evidence, revokes the sentence and sets Hatsue’s husband free. By giving up Hatsue in his heart after so many years of bitterness, he grants her for the first time the possibility of happiness and of having an independent life. Hatsue, finally, gives him a big embrace in gratitude. Ishmael, in deep pain but strong in his conviction, hugs her back tenderly as much as he can with his only arm, and walks away alone in the dense atmosphere of winter.
“This “giving up the past” of Ishmael, finally deciding during the trial to face life once more after many years, is beautifully represented by Venus stationary turning direct the day the trial starts. He is Venus, totally identified with his object of love, without a life of his own, hurt and vulnerable, in need of Hatsue’s love. Hylonome in opposition is his yearning for the paradise he had lost, and also his final surrender and forgiveness.”
Here ends my description written Oct 13 2003. Now let’s see what seem to be the TD10 –or more accurately the Sun/TD10– parts of it:
– trial for murder
– embittered by the War
– love rejection
– racial and cultural prejudices that keep them apart
– racial hatred and cultural prejudices became stronger
– incompatibility
– no space nor choice for such an inter-racial relationship
– the tabus of her culture
– his manhood has been severed
– deeply embittered, with no life of his own, continuing the work of his father
– as a cynical observer only
– certain conviction for murder
– fighting inside of himself with his bitterness
In future posts I will comment each of these in detail.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 07:59:44 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Snow Falling on Cedars, 4: TD10 – b
Now I want to quote the following analysis from the publisher, Barnes and Noble, found in their “SparkNotes” site and written by Selena Ward and Owen Wozniak:
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/cedars/themes.html
This will provide further material on TD10 that I think complements and enriches my previous analysis.
[BEGIN QUOTE]
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The Struggle Between Free Will and Chance
Guterson uses words such as mystery, fate, accident, happenstance, and coincidence to describe the inhuman, uncontrollable, and unknowable forces that govern the universe. Indeed, many events in the world of Snow Falling on Cedars simply happen, causelessly and unpredictably. Carl Heine dies because a freighter happens to pass by his boat at the exact time that he is atop his mast, at his most vulnerable. Ishmael happens to survive the storming of Betio while almost everyone else in his platoon dies. The lighthouse radioman, who would have been able to prove that Kabuo was innocent of murdering Carl, happens to be transferred out of San Piedro the morning after Carl’s death.
These events, like the motions of the storm and the sea, happen for no reason and without human control. The characters in the novel continuously struggle to exert their own will against such impersonal and random forces. This struggle sometimes entails learning to accept what they cannot change: Ishmael, for instance, must accept that his arm has been lost in the war and that Hatsue does not love him. Sometimes, however, circumstances that appear inevitable and unchangeableprejudice or war, for exampleare the result of human action. Guterson suggests that people can and should act to resist these things. Nels decries prejudice in the courtroom, and Arthur does the same in his newspaper. Kabuo assists Carl in an emergency despite having every reason to disregard him. The challenge facing people, Guterson suggests, is learning to recognize the difference between what is human and therefore changeable and what is inhuman and therefore unchangeable. Drawing on love, compassion, courage, reason, and forgiveness, individuals and societies can and must decide as much of their own fate as they can.
The Cyclical Nature of Prejudice
Snow Falling on Cedars reads like a map of prejudice, clearly showing the fault lines between groups and individuals. Prejudice is pervasive on San Piedro; whites resent and fear the Japanese immigrants, but reap economic profit from the Japanese-American residents’ discipline and hard work. Envy, mistrust, and greed run rampant as the island’s whites round up, imprison, and exile their Japanese neighbors when the government gives its internment order. Yet the Japanese-Americans are not simply victims; in some ways, they choose to maintain their separateness, partly out of a sense of superiority. Fujiko, for instance, has contempt for whites and for American culture in general. Likewise, Kabuo distrusts his white neighbors so much that he refuses to cooperate with Art Moran’s investigation of Carl’s death.
Guterson implies that prejudice runs in such cycles, with each biased action and attitude reinforcing and generating new prejudice. Characters who are surrounded by such resentments and biases start to internalize them, allowing them to seep into other parts of their life. Ishmael, for instance, learns to hate the Japanese during World War II because he hates Hatsue for having rejected him. Carl likewise hates the Japanese because the war takes him from his beloved farm.
Additionally, we see that such prejudices in the novel are not limited to differences in ethnicity. The San Piedro fishermen mistrust Ishmael because he is an intellectual and makes a living by using words rather than his hands. Such prejudices remain buried beneath the surface of the seemingly placid community on the island, but they have the potential to erupt with violent consequences. The struggle to identify these prejudices in public and in private is a central challenge for the characters of Snow Falling on Cedars.
The Limits of Knowledge
Ishmael’s argument with his mother, Helen, illustrates the limits of knowledge in the novel. While Ishmael lies and argues that the facts show Kabuo is guilty, Helen wonders if such facts are ever enough to justify condemning a man. Ishmael resists his mother’s argument despite his knowledge that the case against Kabuo is dangerously incomplete and circumstantial.
Guterson suggests that facts and knowledge are not the same thing. When the young Ishmael tells his father that a newspaper should report only facts, Arthur responds by asking his son, “Which facts?” Ishmael ultimately asks the same question when he urges Art Moran to search Carl’s boat a second time. As the novel progresses and we learn more about Carl’s death, we realize that the facts of the case are never complete. The facts remain important, however, because they are often the only resource we have in making any judgment. As individuals and as a community, the characters in Snow Falling on Cedars must use reason when making decisions that could hurt others: weighing Kabuo’s guilt or innocence, for example, or sitting idly by as the island’s Japanese residents are rounded up and put in prison. In every decision, human beings must rely on facts that are inevitably incomplete. We must accept that our knowledge is limited and must rely on our hearts and our reason to make the right decisions.
—————————————————–
[END QUOTE]
The complete, very detailed analysis, summary, and description of the novel can be downloaded here:
http://pdf.sparknotes.com/lit/cedars.pdf
Juan
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Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 08:08:41 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Snow Falling on Cedars, 4: TD10 – c
I will try now to synthesize the “themes” presented by War and Wozniak with TD10 in mind, or to extract those parts which I think relate to TD10:
… mystery, fate, accident, happenstance, and coincidence … the inhuman, uncontrollable, and unknowable forces that govern the universe.
The point here is not these forces in themselves, which would apply to any transneptunian, but their direct intervention in humans’ personal lives (the fate, etc.), dramatically described by the orbital gesture of TD10:
a-) coming from “the beyond” (the “forces that govern the universe”) up to Saturn.
b-) its relatively very low inclination (little space for bargaining, rigidity, compulsiveness)
These events, like the motions of the storm and the sea, happen for no reason and without human control. The characters in the novel continuously struggle to exert their own will against such impersonal and random forces.
Here we see the action of the Sun. Later, or ultimately, Guterson’s novel (and film) could be seen as the answer of the Sun to the “death” or the wall of alienation signified by TD10.
… This struggle sometimes entails learning to accept what they cannot change:
Here is the Sun: struggle, learning (growing, strengthening your spiritual self)… remember the suggestion was that Guterson’s story exemplifies the positive way of dealing with TD10.
Ishmael, for instance, must accept that his arm has been lost in the war and that Hatsue does not love him.
Both things are expressions of each other, and both signify death or severance, separation. Both are “fateful” happenstances that menace to drown or suffocate the Sun. For Ishmael, they are anti-Sun, anti-life. Both alienate him from life, submerging him in chronic depression and pain.
Sometimes, however, circumstances that appear inevitable and unchangeableprejudice or war, for exampleare the result of human action. Guterson suggests that people can and should act to resist these things. Nels decries prejudice in the courtroom, and Arthur does the same in his newspaper. Kabuo assists Carl in an emergency despite having every reason to disregard him. The challenge facing people, Guterson suggests, is learning to recognize the difference between what is human and therefore changeable and what is inhuman and therefore unchangeable. Drawing on love, compassion, courage, reason, and forgiveness, individuals and societies can and must decide as much of their own fate as they can.
This paragraph describes the action of the Sun involved with TD10. Racial prejudice, death, war, unrequited love, depression [death, alienation] are not inevitable and individuals have the power to change them. The above words are a reminder for the politicians responsible of the Israel/Palestine catastrophe (Sun/TD10), but unfortunately they are all deaf and do exactly the opposite. The crumbling of the Berlin Wall (also Sun/TD10) should be an example.of what happens when the Sun “awakens” and responds to the challenge of TD10.
… a map of prejudice, clearly showing the fault lines between groups and individuals.
This now is “the wall”: Arabs and Jews, or Islam and “the West”, communism and democracy, men and women, old and young, all alienated from each other.
Guterson implies that prejudice runs in such cycles, with each biased action and attitude reinforcing and generating new prejudice. Characters who are surrounded by such resentments and biases start to internalize them, allowing them to seep into other parts of their life. Ishmael, for instance, learns to hate the Japanese during World War II because he hates Hatsue for having rejected him. Carl likewise hates the Japanese because the war takes him from his beloved farm…
Israel and Palestine…the internalization of resentment and bias that continues through whole generations, the “cycles of prejudice” that alienate men from each other and from themselves…
Additionally, we see that such prejudices in the novel are not limited to differences in ethnicity. The San Piedro fishermen mistrust Ishmael because he is an intellectual and makes a living by using words rather than his hands. Such prejudices remain buried beneath the surface of the seemingly placid community on the island, but they have the potential to erupt with violent consequences. The struggle to identify these prejudices in public and in private is a central challenge for the characters of Snow Falling on Cedars.
Again, we see Guterson’s way of handling TD10 in a creative way, through “the struggle to identify these prejudices in public and in private”
Guterson suggests that facts and knowledge are not the same thing. When the young Ishmael tells his father that a newspaper should report only facts, Arthur responds by asking his son, “Which facts?”…
… As individuals and as a community, the characters in Snow Falling on Cedars must use reason when making decisions that could hurt others: weighing Kabuo’s guilt or innocence, for example, or sitting idly by as the island’s Japanese residents are rounded up and put in prison. In every decision, human beings must rely on facts that are inevitably incomplete. We must accept that our knowledge is limited and must rely on our hearts and our reason to make the right decisions.
We discussed this once in this forum, when mention was made of “the objectivity” of facts (which facts are selected, which are ignored) present in the local newspapers. This is also an important clue to the still unsolved –for me– relationship of (Sun/)TD10 with the Phenomenology of Edmund Husserl.
Juan
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Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 09:11:03 -0600
Subject: Re: [Centaurs] Snow Falling on Cedars, 4: TD10 – c
[…]
… I feel TD10 is more radical… For example, one can speak of a “misunderstanding” between the left and right hemispheres of the brain, but TD10 probably describes the situation where they alienate from each other completely, without cooperation, working by themselves and the result is psychosis or schizophrenia. I recall the theory of “the bicameral mind”, which ascribes this separation to ancient peoples and sees it as the basis of conversations with God or with the gods.
I still have to write a couple of additional posts and try to refine the keywords.
Juan
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Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 12:37:26 -0600
Subject: [Centaurs] Snow Falling on Cedars, 4: TD10 – d
With all the many TD10 cases analyzed previously in mind, I comment my notes:
– trial for murder,
– certain conviction for murder
– the tabus of her culture
The conviction, but also the convict. Privation of liberty… the death sentence… or death itself in the symbolical sense, but especially fratricide, parricide, etc., death in the family, genocide… The alleged murder which happens to be an accident is transposed and becomes also the “murder” at Pearl Harbor. But there is also “the murder of love”, the cultural tabus that sentence love to death.
– embittered by the War, fighting inside of himself with his bitterness
– deeply embittered, with no life of his own, continuing the work of his father
– as a cynical observer only
Not war itself, but the fruits of war: hate, prejudice, death of the father or of the children, passed on from generation to generation. As I mentioned in my previous analysis, the film (and presumable, the novel) reinforces the role of the father in the spiritual sense (Ishmael’s father, his role in the community as the owner and writer of the morning paper), and also the massive, heavy blow of oppression suffered by the Japanese-American who lost their property and their freedom.
– love rejection
– his manhood has been severed (lost his arm)
– incompatibility
This is another aspect of death. Love rejected is a blow to the Sun, a deep wound, a denial of what comes from the depths of ourselves and defines our worth as individuals. Depression, isolation. I try to touch the other person’s heart, but I find myself against a wall. I am not wanted. The theme of the father can also reappear: I am not wanted by my father, or by my mother from the womb: I am born dead. Unrequited love is similar because it is born dead.
– racial and cultural prejudices that keep them apart
– racial hatred and cultural prejudices became stronger
– no space nor choice for such an inter-racial relationship
All the walls again. The walls that separate: the wall of the body, of language, or religion, the wall of money, of class, of external appearance, of culture or beliefs… “the wall between the species”, etc. In terms of TD10, as I have mentioned, the idea is a “severance” wall. It is not simply “prejudice” but alienation, something that produces antagonism between one side of the wall and the other.
In the case of Mordechai Vanunu, the Israeli “traitor”, for example, we have Mercury/TD10. I feel that what I have said here is enough to understand what it means. I can think, for example:
– his imprisonment, the efforts of the Isreali government to silence him, do “drown and suffocate” him
– his efforts in spying, documenting, denouncing and publishing Israel’s wmd
– the wmd themselves (TD10=death), with which he is identified through his Mercury
etc.
Juan